How Do Imams Know Who is Going to Jannah or Not ?

For Prophets (pbut) there is direct communication with Allah (swt), so they confirm news about companions going to jannah. Now I want to know how do the Imams conclude who among the Shias are going to Jannah or who is a hypocrite? The 12ers believe Hisham bin Al-Hakam, Hisham bin Salim, Yunus bin Abdulrahman, Zurara bin Ayan are going to Jannah. I'm guessing to them the Imams said so. The question is how do the Imams know these people are going to supposedly enter jannah? When it comes to the Prophet (pbuh) and his connection to the companions the 12ers proudly quote this verse:

And among those around you of the bedouins are hypocrites, and [also] from the people of Madinah. They have become accustomed to hypocrisy. You, [O Muhammad], do not know them, [but] We know them. (9:101)

So if a Prophet does not know without wahi, how is an Imam suppose to know who is good or bad ?

12er Shia Imam Travels Back In Time to Help Prophet Sulaiman

الَ الَّذِي عِنْدَهُ عِلْمٌ مِنَ الْكِتَابِ أَنَا آتِيكَ بِهِ قَبْلَ أَنْ يَرْتَدَّ إِلَيْكَ طَرْفُكَ ۚ فَلَمَّا رَآهُ مُسْتَقِرًّا عِنْدَهُ قَالَ هَٰذَا مِنْ فَضْلِ رَبِّي لِيَبْلُوَنِي أَأَشْكُرُ أَمْ أَكْفُرُ ۖ وَمَنْ شَكَرَ فَإِنَّمَا يَشْكُرُ لِنَفْسِهِ ۖ وَمَنْ كَفَرَ فَإِنَّ رَبِّي غَنِيٌّ كَرِيمٌ {40} [Pickthal 27:40] One with whom was knowledge of the Scripture said: I will bring it thee before thy gaze returneth unto thee. And when he saw it set in his presence, (Solomon) said: This is of the bounty of my Lord, that He may try me whether I give thanks or am ungrateful. Whosoever giveth thanks he only giveth thanks for (the good of) his own soul; and whosoever is ungrateful (is ungrateful only to his own soul's hurt). For lo! my Lord is Absolute in independence,Bountiful.

[Pooya/Ali Commentary] A large, powerful jinn offered his services and assured Sulayman that he would do it before he would rise from his council. However strong and big a creature might be, it was not possible for him to go to a distant land and bring her and her throne in a few moments, unless the jinn had supernatural powers to do it. Although the jinn had boasted of his strength and supernatural power, yet when a man who had knowledge of the book said that he would bring them to him within the twinkling of an eye, Sulayman gave him permission. Soon the Queen, with her throne, was before him. See commentary of Rad: 43 to know about him who had the knowledge of the book. It is reported by Abu Ishaq Thalabi that Abdullah bin Salam asked the Holy Prophet to give the name of the man who had knowledge of the book and brought the queen of Sheba with her throne within the twinkling of an eye. The Holy Prophet said: "It was Ali." It is stated in Minhaj al Sadiqin and Umdat al Bayan that then the Holy Prophet said to Ali: "O Ali, you helped all the prophets of Allah incognito (concealed from view), and you help me in propria persona (in person) manifestly." Ali ibn abi Talib is known as mazhar al aja-ib and mazhar al ghara-ib because, as willed by Allah, he used to appear in different forms to carry out divine plans under very special circumstances. These two epithets are exclusively reserved for Ali. Even today the true believers invoke Allah to send him for help. The famous dua, known as Nadi Ali, which the Holy Prophet recited, as commanded by Allah, at Khaybar refers to Ali as mazhar al aja-ib. Ali ibn abi Talib is also known as mushkil kusha, the remover of hardships. In every age, to many persons he comes personally to remove hardships. Through his name great spiritual achievements are attained. The Holy Prophet, and after him, Ali are acknowledged as the most superior possessors of the spiritual powers.

The 12er Shia school of theology divides Muslims in two groups.
They are:
  a) Exoteric (Ammi)
 b) Esoteric (Khassa)

 Exoteric (Ammi)
 The exoteric are the Ammi who the 12ers refer to as the Sunnis. Since we are Sunni we are referred to common people, and due to this only common knowledge will be shared in public.

Esoteric (Khassa)
 The esoteric are the khassa who are special people within the 12er Shia. Within this group another type of knowledge is shared which is intended for only a small group of people.

 So supposedly even the knowledge of Imam Ali (as) helping the previous Prophets was hidden from the Prophets themselves, yet the esoteric group of people knew that all along that it was Ali who was travelling back in time to help the previous Prophets.
 This is why the 12ers have ahadith like this in their books:

 Mohammed bin al-Hasan bin Ahmed bin al-Waleed related to me from Mohammed bin al-Hasan as-Saffar… from Mohammed bin Qays and Aamir bin as-Simt that Abu Ja'far (as) related that the Prophet (pbuh) said: On the Day of Resurrection, some people dressing clothes of light with luminous faces whom will be identified by the signs of prostration will come. They will overstep the rows until they stand in front of the Lord of the worlds. The prophets, angels, shahids, and righteous people will envy them. Omar bin al-Khattab asked: O Allah's Messenger (pbuh), who are they whom the prophets, angels, shahids, and righteous men will envy? The Prophet answered: They will be our Shia, and Ali (as) will be their imam. ( Mishkat ul-Anwar; 97, al-Burhan; 4:293 H.13, Bihar ul-Anwar; 7:179 H.18.)

Dozener Imamate Contradicts This Verse

To the 12ers who believe in Imamate the powers Imamate comes with, how would you interpret this verse ?

قُلْ لَا أَمْلِكُ لِنَفْسِي نَفْعًا وَلَا ضَرًّا إِلَّا مَا شَاءَ اللَّهُ ۚ وَلَوْ كُنْتُ أَعْلَمُ الْغَيْبَ لَاسْتَكْثَرْتُ مِنَ الْخَيْرِ وَمَا مَسَّنِيَ السُّوءُ ۚ إِنْ أَنَا إِلَّا نَذِيرٌ وَبَشِيرٌ لِقَوْمٍ يُؤْمِنُونَ {188} [Pickthal 7:188] Say: For myself I have no power to benefit, nor power to hurt, save that which Allah willeth. Had I knowledge of the Unseen, I should have abundance of wealth, and adversity would not touch me. I am but a warner, and a bearer of good tidings unto folk who believe.

Of course, in the mainstream view we are told that Imamate is superior to all Prophets except the seal of Prophethood. So with this in mind how can we interpret this verse from a 12er Shia point of view ?

12er Scholar Jafar Subhani Fails to Respond to the Zaidi Challenge (Read 91 times)

I got this video forwarded from a Zaidi brother, and he explained how the 12er Ayatollah failed to answer a question presented by the Zaidi Scholar.

 

My Zaidi friend informed me that Iran has offered free visas, schooling to the Zaidi Yemenis to come to Iran and slowly convert into 12er Shiaism. In the video above a Zaidi converted to a 12er but was not satisfied with the answer of Al-Subhani. The ex-Zaidi presented a question from the Zaidi Imam Al-Masnoor bi Allah about the sanad of 12 Imams reported by Jabir bin Sorah


font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12.4799995422363px; line-height: 17.4720001220703px;">The person who asked was Zaidi student (not scholar), he converted from Zaidi to 12r.

He asked one of the biggest Ja'fari scholars about some questions that Zaidis asked the 12r about.

He said:
Zaidis said:

- Ja'farism has narration about the 12 Imams and but this narration is not collective-transmitted narration. And there is  a principle in religion which says "anything important should be well-known to make Hujjah on all people"??!!

- After proving that narration is not collective-transmitted and it is mono-transmitted, it should be known that the narrator of it is Jaber ibn Sumrah who is untrustworthy by All Ummah even the Ja'farism itself.??!!

- Narrations from   Sunnah's books about 12 Caliphs did not mention the names and time or (how will be the time between Imam and the next…)??!!

- If there is a narration, then what Ja'farism believe that Imams should have Karamah (miracles) in order to the true Imam??!!

- If there is a collective-narration, then why Shi'a asked their Imam about the name of the next Imam??!!

- Why are Ja'faris the only ones who narrated it, and no one of sons, cousins and uncle of Imams (who are their family) did not know about it and did not report about it, even they did not know from their grandfathers (Ali, Al-Hassan and Al-Hussein)

-  Ja'farism reported 17 times that it was believed that Musa Al-Kadhim was Al-Mahdi??!!

- Ja'farism, even they believe their narrations are collective-transmitted which is Hujjah on people to necessarily believe in, were divided to many sects, some say there is no Imam after Musa Al-Kadhim, some believe that Ismail bin Ja'far is the Imam instead of Musa…etc??!!

* Here ended the speech of Al-Amdi about the questions that Zaidis put..
=-=-=-=-=-=



The answers from Al-Shaykh Al-Sobhani:

Our narrations are narrated by our all Shi'a (near and far), scholars and not scholars in every time. It is not only Al-Kuylani (owner of book Al-Kafi) or Al-Mofeed (of book Al-Irshad) who narrated and believe in this. It is no one by one belief, it is group by group and time by time believe. And the end of his answer he recommended his students and the inquirer to read a new book which collect all narrations that proves that narration of 12 is collective-transmitted.
Zaidi Commentary
* my answer to that: which groups he is talking about??!! Family of Imams are in those groups??!! If it is really that known why Ummah did not know about the 12 names appointed by Allah like Ummah did know about Ghadeer Khum, Thaqleen narration, Stars narrations… all of this narrations are mentioned in evey hadith'book by Sunnah ad Shi'a.

So, Shaykh Al-Sobhani is so wordy without giving any proof for his words.

And about the new book that will expose the truth of narration 12 names being collective-transmitted, it is only book which will collect the narration that are already in Alkafi and rest books of 12r. so what is really new then??!! We know that the claim about the narration which they are the only who report, even if this narration is in one book or many..
=-=-=-=-

Al-Sobhani continued saying: even Sunnah books mentioned that there  are 12 caliphs.

Zaidi Commentary
My answer:

- It was said in the video Jaber ibn Sumrah who also mentioned as untrustworthy and narrations of him are not accepted.

- There are three types of sunnah narrations like the following narration:

1- Islam is in dignity and powerful if 12 caliphs (princes) take authority. (sahih muslim)

So:
-  there is no name, no indication to the bloodline or the time that caliphs come after another
- Was Islam in dignity and powerful by Ja'fari Imams, (specially Imams after Al-Hussein, did they do anything to make thing aright??!!

2- It will be 12 caliph after me all of them are from Quraish, then RasullAllah (pbuh) went home when Quraish came to him asking: then What?? He said: then the hoopla begins. (al-albani, and al-baqawi)

So, in this narration, there is a time after these 12 caliphs, which comes after they will be gone and according to books of Shia' and even Zaidi and Sunnah when Al-Mahdi arises the right will be dominant ..

3- It will be after me 12 caliphs the first is Abu Bakir, then Omar then Othman.. (this narration is totally incorrect by Sunnah).. (Al-Haithami)

No comment for me..
=-==-==-==-

Then Al-Amdi asked how can we make people persuaded that our narrations are collective-transmitted??

Al-Sobhani responded:

Knowing that this narration is not collective-transmitted for some people, doesn't prove that it is really not, for example: if there are groups in forest or behind oversees and islam is not reaching them, does that mean that Islam is not correct??!! absolutely not.. the same here.

Zaidi Commentary

My answer to that:

this is a thoughtless answer of him, because people were around Imams all times, even there were hundreds of people studied with Imams Zaidi and Ja'fari (and I emphasize here that all Imams Ja'fari and Zaidi are our Imams, all of them are Zaidi Imams, Imams of ilm and imam of ilm and Jihad)
And that tells us that people are not living in isolated island and Imams and their shia' are in another..
Even more, what about the sons,cousins and uncles of the Imams.
=-=-=-

Al-Amdi asked:
Zaidis ask why knowing the narration and knowing the Imams is exclusive for the few people around Imams??!!
and why was there sporadic divisions among shia' about Imams??!!

Al-Sobhani said:
our narrators and who collected the narrations are trustworthy and people who seek for right should think profoundly to recognize the right. So, people are demanded to come to Shia' (ja'farism) to know about the narrations of 12 names.
And the reason that the narrations were not known and Imams were not recognized is because of the harsh circumstances around Imams, so that Imam Ja'far As-Sadiq made one of the tyrants (ruler of his time) a supporter, to hide his real identity in order not to be killed.
People should know the Imams by their ilm and morals.

Zaidi Commentary
My answer:

- it is mindful to say that their narrators are trustworthy, but why Al-Tosi in his book Al-Tahdhib said that when if there is a good narration, another contradicting narrations appear.. So, where is the trustworthy of that??!!

- why should people know Imams by descriptions is there a well-known and collective-reported narrations??!!, Is it the same thing that Zaidis say that Imam can be know by quranic descriptions??!! How come knowing Imam by his descriptions will lead us to know he is appointed by Allah???!!!

And if we matched the deeds of Imams with Quran, we will know that Zaidi Imams are appointed because they have completed the scientific and practical conditions in Quran, and Ja'fari Imams did not..

Who can Ja'farism deny their history that their Shia' ancestors themselves did not know about the narrations of names??!! And they asked their Imam of time about who is the coming Imam??!!

Bottom line is that answers did not convince Al-Amdi who was keeping repeating the questions again??? The answers tell that knowing Imam can be with profound thinking??? (so where is the narration then)
=-=-=-=-

Here I want to say: Al-Amdi is ja'fari because of when he knew these questions of Zaidis??!! did he answer them then was convinced to become a Ja'fari?? or he converted so easily and gave these questions no attention?? Then why he was asking them if he see the questions unworthy to answer??!!

The Three Were Once Good?

There are two opinions on the status of Abi Bakr, Umar and Uthmaan from the 12er Shia point of view. 1) They were monafiqeen since day one 2) They became monafiqeen since the Prophet (pbuh) passed away. The first opinion without a doubt contradicts the Quran. However, for the second opinion there is no proof in the 12er Shia ahadith books.

Sikh And Yahoodi Religious Freedom in Tehran

There is no Sunni mosque in Tehran. The 12er Shia say the community is too small to have their own mosque. However, even a small Sikh and Yahoodi community have their own Gurudwaras and synagogues.




For the Yahood there are 25 synagogues.

Rafidah Didn't Show Any Support To Imam Musa Al Kazim (as)

In this clip the 12er Shia scholar covers the history about how the Rafidah were useless Shias, who failed to do anything for the Imams, but when the Imams passed away they were always in the front lines mourning and crying.

Nakshawani Blames Ahle Sunnah for ISIS

So if this how he judges ahle sunnah what was the point of reprimanding Yassir Habib ?

Yasser Habib Discourages Taqiyyah in Debates

The 12er Shia Imams  in the 12er Shia books are the Imams of hate. Therefore, Yasser al Habib attributed a hadith to the Prophet (pbuh) where he supposedly hit Ayesha. He was even corrected by the 12ers, yet he refused to accept the correct view. The man is waiting for the 12th Imam to come and resurrect Ayesha and take revenge. So he refused to be corrected.

Aside from that full respect goes to this man for encouraging dozners to speak the truth openly. I've come across his type of 12ers, and we actually got along very well. Whereas the deceptive taqiyyah based 12ers have angered and frustrated me with their lies and deception. Yes, 12ers your taqiyyah is dangerous and I do find it a threat. Ibn Al Alqami even allowed Iraq to be destroyed with this treacherous behavior.   This attack included Imam Ali's (as) shrine to damaged.

The Result of Waiting for the Mahdi

Dozener's 9th Imam Uses Qiyas to Explain the Punishment of Theft

The 12ers claim Imam Jafar (as) cursed Imam Abu Hanifa (ra) for using Qiyas in fiqh. We can agree with them that the Imam condemned Qiyas, but to curse is the method of the Khawarij. The sahaba had differing views on fiqh, and they differed many times in front of the Prophet(pbuh). The Prophet (pbuh) did not curse them.
Anyway, as much the 12ers shias curse Abu Hanifa, they are in taqiyyah mode when it comes to self criticism.
For example, during Muharram chest beating isn't considered a Sunnah, yet they use Qiyas to justify why they do it.

Another interesting incident I found is that to justify the punishment of theft they attribute Qiyas toward the 9th Imam in order for him to explain his position.

One day a person came to the court of Mu‘tasim and confessed that he had committed theft and would like to be punished so that he could be free from the guilt and punishment in the hereafter. The Qur’an says that the punishment for theft (with some conditions) is cutting off the thief’s yad. Yad means: hand, forearm and elbow. So the caliph called all the prominent religious scholars, including Imam Muhammad at-Taqi (a.s.), and asked: “From where should the yad of the thief be cut?” (The Qur’an is asking for the definition of “yad”.)
Ibn Abi Da’ud, the chief judge, said, “From the wrist.”
Mu‘tasim: “What is your proof for that?”
Ibn Abi Da’ud: “The word ‘yad’ has been used in the verse of tayammum —so wipe your faces and your hands(5:5)— for the hand.”
Some scholars agreed with Ibn Abi Da’ud but others disagreed and said: “Cut the thief’s yad from the elbow.”
Mu‘tasim: “What is your proof?”
The scholars: “The word ‘yad’ has been used in the verse of wudhu —wash your faces and your hands up to the elbows (5:5)— for the fore-arm.”
Then Mu‘tasim turned towards Imam Muhammad at-Taqi (a.s.) and asked his opinion. The Imam first declined to give his view because he was aware of the court’s politics. But when Mu‘tasim insisted, the Imam finally said, “All these gentlemen are mistaken because only the [four] fingers have to be cut.”
Mu‘tasim: “What is your proof?”
The Imam (a.s.): “The Prophet (s.a.w.) has said that sajdah is done on seven parts of the body: forehead, palms, knees and two big toes [of the feet]. If a thief’s hand or forearm is cut, then it would not be possible for him to do the sajdah whereas Allâh has said, ‘And verily the masâjid [the body parts on which sajdah is done] belong to Allâh...;’ and what belongs to Allâh should not be cut.”
The caliph liked the answer of the Imam and ordered that the four fingers of the thief be cut.
This extraordinary event, in the public’s view at Mu‘tasim’s court, proved the superiority of the Imams of Ahlu ’l-Bayt. It, however, also created an extreme feeling of jealousy and hatred in the heart of Ibn Abi Da’ud.
On finding an appropriate moment, Ibn Abi Da’ud cautioned the caliph against inadvertantly promoting Imam Muhammad at-Taqi (a.s.) by publicly following his view and rejecting those of the other scholars. He filled the caliph’s ears to the extent that the caliph started looking at the Imam as a threat to his own caliphate.
During the last days of Dhul Qa‘dah 220 A.H., the Imam was poisoned by his wife, the niece of Mu‘tasim, and he died as a martyr. His body was buried next to his grandfather’s grave in the Qurayshi cemetary in Baghdad which is now known as Kâdhimayn.

http://www.imamreza.net/eng/imamreza.php?id=7711

So first the Imam does taqiyyah, then he uses anology to explain his view

12ers and Yahood Share a Similar History

I am using this interview as a reference to compare the historical similarities.

Start listening from the 12:00 min mark.Then at 13:55  min point he discusses history which goes parallel with the history of the Rafidah/12er Shia. All you would have to do is replace the term Yahud with Rafidah and 2000 with 1300.